How to Speak Maintenance -

Promoting your best technician seems like the obvious next step… but what happens when technical skill doesn’t automatically translate to leadership?

The truth is almost every company faces this challenge.

Join our hosts, Jason Fein and Becca Ramati as we break down how to better support the transition from “player” to “coach” with Cerwin Thompson & Katy Polanco, SHRM-CP, NAAEI Faculty.

We’re diving into:
• The difference between technical skill and leadership skill
• Navigating the “player-to-coach” shift
• Common mistakes new supervisors make
• How companies can better support new leaders

If you’re growing your team (or stepping into leadership yourself), this is a conversation you don’t want to miss.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:02

Good morning, everybody. Good afternoon. Welcome to How to Speak Maintenance. If you are new to our podcast, we are sponsored by the Texas Apartment Association Education Foundation, and we bring guests on our show to talk through the maintenance side of property management and how we can better support our maintenance teams. My name is Jason Fine. I'm the VP of Maintenance at Dominium Apartments, and I'm here with Becca Ramotti, who is the VP of the Texas Apartment Association Education Foundation. Thanks for putting this on together or putting this together, Becca.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

No problem. Thanks, Jason.

SPEAKER_03 0:33

Is there anything you'd like to share with the listeners about what you're working on or any great things that they can find on your website?

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Well, we're back from a very exciting week in Fort Worth, Texas, last week at the TA1 conference. If you weren't there and you're tired of seeing all the amazing posts and pictures on LinkedIn or Facebook or wherever, start putting the word out that you want to go next year in San Antonio. It was a great few days of learning and education and fun. And hope everyone will be there next year. And I'll also mention that this week is RPM Careers Week. So extra yay! Shout out to everyone in the apartment industry. You can find out more about RPM Careers Week at the NAA website. So happy RPM Careers Week to everyone.

SPEAKER_03 1:26

That's great. Well, uh our special guests today are Kerwin Thompson and Katie Polanco. Kerwin Thompson is the vice president of facilities at RPM Living, and Katie is the vice president of human resources at J Street Property Services. So welcome, Katie and Kerwin. Katie, do you mind telling the listeners about where you're working, what you're doing, and what what you uh enjoy about your job?

SPEAKER_02 1:51

Yeah, absolutely. So I currently work for J Street Property Services, and uh we currently serve around 3,000 uh units here in DFW, and um you know just excited to be here. Like you said, I'm the VP of Human Resources, and my job really entails everything people. So from uh onboarding to training to um the entire employee life cycle, really. Uh and so making sure that you know our teams are well equipped to um to go to work, but also everything in between. So happy to be here. Thanks.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

That's great. Thanks, Katie. Kerwin, same for you. Would you mind telling our listeners about yourself and what you're working on?

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Well, hey everyone. Uh Kerwin Thompson, uh vice president of facilities for RPM Living. I'm based out of Austin, um, where our head corporate office is at, and I am over the facilities department, which encompasses regional maintenance managers and then also capital improvements team. So I have about a team of about 60 under me, and we're across the nation. I can't tell you how many units we're at. I think we were fourth on the MA, I can't even pronounce it, MHAC uh list that just came out. Um and what I work on day-to-day is various items. It could be stuff for the facilities teams, you know, uh training for the on-site maintenance team, which I have work heavily with the training department, and just our capital improvements team. You know, we're just working building out processes that we can better serve our clients.

SPEAKER_03 3:19

That's great. Well, between the two of you, I I know that we're gonna have some really spirited conversations about how we can be able to better help support our team. So thanks for joining. Yeah. Well, today's topic is about what happens when technical skills don't automatically translate to successful leadership capabilities. I mean, before we joined, we we we walked through the topic and started talking about things, and and I'm really excited to dive into it. So, my first question to both of you is what do you think the difference is between technical skill and leadership skills? So, Katie, I think with HR, maybe you can you can help us start off this conversation.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

Yeah, I think you know the difference between technical and leadership is quite different. Um, you know, this is a very different skill set. It's almost like night and day. And you know, we hire for the technical piece, right? And we want to make sure that people can can do the job. Um for the um you know, the supervising piece and the leadership piece, it's very different. Um it really uh involves more of that uh coaching skill, that um that communication skill. It's kind of like stepping back from you know, going from not hero to zero, but it sometimes it feels like that during the process of but you know, technical skill is like you know, doing the job, getting dirty, getting in there, you know, you know, day to day, just trying to be that top performer. And then that leadership role is really stepping back and not lasering in on those skills, but all like expanding it. And so making sure like you know, not only can people get the job done, but leading them in a way where they enjoy working for you that you know they they're they have uh positive influence by you, and so that involves a lot of different types of skills.

SPEAKER_03 5:08

That's true. Uh I could couldn't have said it better. Kerwin, from a maintenance perspective, like what are your what are your thoughts on technical versus leadership skills?

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Well, I gotta agree with Katie. It's night and day um when you look at both. You know, you can teach both skills, um, but not everybody's a leader at the end of the day. Um so you know, with the technical skills, it's basically really just doing the job. You're you're hands-on, you're doing it yourself, you know, you're fixing from ACs to toilets to electrical. Um, leadership now, you gotta teach somebody how to do that. And you got to transition your mind. It's like, okay, somebody taught me how to do this. How am I gonna transfer those skills to somebody else now? Um, because it's not me about me just doing it, because we look at it. If you're running a 500-unit property, you can't do that by yourself. You need the help of your entire team. So if you're the supervisor now, you're teaching your entire team how to help you to maintain and take care of that property. So you gotta change your mind, you gotta change the way you think. Um, and you have to get the buy-in from your team. That's what a good leader does. Um, they treat their team with respect and they get their team to just follow them, you know. Um, I had a motto when I was on site, um, I never asked my team to do anything I wouldn't personally do. So I didn't get on roofs, y'all not getting on roofs. I'm scared of heights, even though I'm tall. So it's just one of those things.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

So I think uh to Kerwin's point, I think it's taking that passion uh that you have for your own job, and usually your top performers are super passionate about what they do, and it's transforming that passion of doing into leading. And to Kerwin's point, not everybody is a leader, right? Like you have to be super passionate about it in order to do it well. And I think the leaders that we've all had in our careers, you know, the good ones that stand out, they were really passionate about helping us get to the next level.

SPEAKER_03 7:04

That's true.

unknown 7:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:06

But it we're almost setting them up for for failure, though. I mean, because as a technician, you you can you know put your head down and run through 20 tickets as fast as possible, and everybody, you know, celebrates you. And when you go on vacation, the property falls apart. And then and sometimes we think that that's you know, that's a great leader, and that's somebody we should be promote and make a supervisor. And I've seen it in my past, I'm sure you both have seen it as well, where that person becomes a supervisor, and then they like you're saying, Kurt, when you you can't just keep doing it, you need your team to be able to do all the things that need to be completed at the property. So you can't just put your head down and just barrel through all that work and be successful. So it's a good point.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

100%.

SPEAKER_03 7:53

So, how do you think you navigate that shift from being a player to being a coach? I mean, Kerwin, you want to start?

SPEAKER_00 8:02

It's I mean, the player coach mentality, you know, you gotta it it's a shift. It's now you're you're now die. I mean, I played basketball, so I uh uh speaking that analogy, you're now coming up with the plays. You're now coming up with the game plan, you're coming up with the scheme, how you're gonna attack. Um, you gotta figure out your day-to-day, your week, and now you gotta distribute that to the rest of your team. Um, and then I think switching from a player to a coach, it's uh I I kind of use that mentality, you trust but verify, you know. Um you tell somebody to do something and you kind of go back behind them to make sure that they're doing it correctly. Um but I think it's about training them how you want the job done and then letting them go out and empower them to do the job, and you just follow behind them to make sure it's getting done the way that you want it to do. So now you're kind of empowering your team to get the job done the way you need it to be done, really. So it's really a mind shift. It's you know, you gotta switch your mind. It's like now I am the one that's responsible for this entire team, and I want this team to be successful. So, what do I do to ensure that this team is successful?

SPEAKER_02 9:13

Yeah, I agree. I think uh I think everything centers around the good old-fashioned good communication. You know, if you've got a top performer that's great and barrels down, and we don't want to set them up for failure, right? We need to set expectations early on. Look, I know like you're a top performer, you win every award. Now it's time to to talk about what next steps in your career really look like, and really having those open conversations of that shift of hey, are you able to step back and to uh to lead a little bit more than what than doing? And so um communication centered around what the expectations of a leadership role really looks like, and then also you know, through those first 30, 60, 90 days of them being in position, um, a mentorship program is vital. Uh having them paired up with a senior leader, somebody that um maybe you know went through it and that can touch base and has the time to do that on site during that process.

SPEAKER_03 10:14

No, that's great. I mean, to have something to help support your new leaders or to be able to train them up to become a leader, I mean it's it's vital for their success. Otherwise, like we're talking about, you're gonna take the best technician and move them into a supervisor role and then expect them to be successful, but they don't know how to be successful. So Kerwin, what sort of um support or training have you seen uh companies roll out to new or you know upcoming supervisors?

SPEAKER_00 10:46

So uh like uh Katie said, you know, having that mentorship is is is vital. It's key. It helps the the that person lean onto somebody that's in their shoes and is walking the same walk that they're doing. So kind of understand what they're going through. Uh I could here what we do. I mean, my corporate team, uh my regional maintenance managers, they're all service managers. So they're former service managers, so we kind of layer it in with those newly promoted maintenance managers and guide them and teach them how to be a leader, how to effectively run their team. Um, and we walk their shoes, so they they tend to listen to us because we we understand what it means to be outside, you know, in Texas when it's 30 degrees and you know it's freezing, or you know, in the summer, well, it's about to be the 100 plus degrees replacing ACs. We understand, you know, so we can kind of walk them through how we were successful on site and show them, okay, this is how you can be successful and utilize the tools that you have. You know, the I frame it, a good leader wants your entire team to be successful, not necessarily yourself, but your team. And if you're doing that, your team success, then you have success at the end.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

Are any of these mentorship programs between leaders in maintenance and leaders in other aspects of the company? Have you seen that as well?

SPEAKER_00 12:09

It's been really, we do leaders with maintenance. We kind of paired them up together because it it's talking that talk. I mean, you know, maintenance guys, we speak a different type of language. It might be English, but it's the maintenance English.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

So there might be some nice extra benefits of that of having a up-and-coming leader get a uh also get a taste of what and how another leader runs their team, not in maintenance, and also giving that leader a little more insight into how the maintenance team works.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

I I wish we'd get to that point. And so I know we're not there yet, but um I I I agree with you. I think if you holistically know how a property is property, how it's properly supposed to be ran from all aspects, you'll be a better leader at the end of the day. Um, but we're not there yet. We're getting there.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

So I mean, to Becca, your point, I have seen it in that way. I think um it's also really important to have a visible mentoring program. Um it's great all day if we can say, you know, Kerwin, pair up with Jason and get it done. And you know, and then there's like no visibility. We don't know if the ball was dropped or if you know they're not really meeting or they've just been too busy. Um, but making sure you have the right uh, it doesn't always have to be technology, but just something visible where you you know what's happening and when how often they're meeting, um, I think is really valuable and important, just so everybody's on the same page.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Yeah, you've got to sort of set some milestones, I think, with that. If you set those milestones that everybody has visibility to, um nothing will be dropped.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

So yeah, agree.

SPEAKER_03 13:46

Yeah. But when we were talking earlier earlier, Kurt, when you were talking about how when people join your team, you do something to try to allow them the opportunity to learn and to be successful. Do you mind talking about that a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 13:59

So the good thing what we're what we're doing, we're we're really diving into training heavily. And I have a great partner on our training team, uh, she's Christy Dobbins, and we're working on really when we onboard a maintenance member, we're kind of pulling them away for about three days now before they even start, you know, because normally when we onboard a maintenance team member, we're in disarray. The properties has been without a staff, and hey, go throw them to the phrase, the buyer, you know. And we're trying to stop that because we want to set them up for success. We want them, you know, you might have worked at a different company, and we all have our different policies and procedures. So we want to make sure that you're successful here. So pulling them away, having them have three days of just training that they go through the training and really have a staged approach to how they integrate into the property. Um, we're starting to see success, and we're having we're giving them the best opportunity to be extremely successful. So it's it's just really training from the onset, from when you onboard somebody and let them know you have a support. Like I said, my team, we were we have a lot of people across the country, and we really dive in first two weeks, we're with that service manager, new team member, just to make sure that they understand we're here to help, we're here to support you. Any questions ask us because we want you to be successful. We don't want turnover. We know how turnover just makes us all cringe and frustrated at times, but um, we have to slow that down by giving them the avenue to be successful.

SPEAKER_03 15:28

Turnover turnover is expensive, so Katie. I mean, you were earlier talking about how you're kind of starting to build some neat tools and you're trying to lay out the path to be able to help uh service managers become successful in their role. In a perfect world, like what sort of things would you see as uh as a great resource to maintenance teams or just leaders in general, I guess?

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Yeah, I mean, Karuen, you guys are you're you're doing it right, is really pulling them out of that chaos for the first, you know, at least 48 hours minimum. And it's so hard to do it, especially right now where you hunt and hunt and hunt for the right talent. And you know, some of our sites have been without a position for months, and so they're behind and they need to play catch up. But I think Kerwin, you guys have something going there because you know, number one, making sure that they are not overwhelmed as soon as they step on site. Um, number two, pairing them with a mentor or having some sort of mentoring program in place, even at, you know, even if it's not fancy, right? Just pairing them up. And then, you know, in order for success to be had, it has to be heard. So making sure that you have those open lines of communication and a process to get feedback from them, because so often, you know, we want that feedback, we want to know how it's going in the first 90 days, but we're not asking. And you know, they're not they're not telling either. If their experience is horrible, if their experience is great, they're not telling either way. So we really have to have those channels of either surveying or you know, having that that good relationship built. Um, we believe in the value of community here at J Street. So we want to take them to lunch, we want to get to know their family. You know, when people are really bought in, not just to the job, but to the environment, you know, that's when they're more likely to stay past that 90 days. So there's a lot of things that have to go into making that experience for any position successful, and it's not easy. And so uh Kerwin, kudos to RPM for doing that and recognizing that.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

We're trying. We're trying. We're trying.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

It's hard. Katie, you just outlined you outlined some of these things, but we do have a question from Andrea who says, and this is an age-old question that I know we've talked about on this show too, but how do you prioritize the training with everything else going on? How do you make it a non-negotiable?

SPEAKER_02 18:01

You have to be passionate about it. I mean, it it's speed of the leader, speed of the team, right? And so, you know, if you can really uh ensure that everybody's bought in, and that buy-in is crucial to making sure that training takes place first. You know, um I think making sure you have buy-in, number one, uh, and being able to shut it down. And that all starts during the hiring process of laying out and the groundwork for expectations, either with your regional, your VP, or whoever's doing that hiring process, making sure you all are are on the same playing field about timing.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

The way I look at it is that we've been without a maintenance team for the past month. What's two more days? Right. Um let's set this team up for success. Let's show them how we do it here. Because I guess every company has a different policy procedures. So you want to make sure that they are aligned with the way we want stuff to be done. So you have to make it a priority. And like Katie says, you've got to get the entire operations, maintenance, everybody has to be on one accord for that person to be successful and that for that entire team. We want to stop the bleeding, we want to make sure that they're set up for success, and we want to make sure that they can take care of the property. And the only way to do that is to everybody has to be on the same page when it comes to training. That it's okay, hey. You know, we gotta slow down, slow down, I call it slow down to speed up, you know.

SPEAKER_02 19:33

Yeah, you know, and and I I realize like that's easier said than done, and that's the feedback I always get, right? Oh, it's easier said than done. But at the same time, if you're trying to uh you know, make basically prove the value here, the value is in writing, the value is in the numbers, you know. Like Jason, you said the cost of turnover is pricey. It is, you know, it costs you know a few thousand dollars every time we have to, you know, replace someone, especially within that 90 days, it hurts. And so um really showing that however you need to through the numbers is also vital.

SPEAKER_03 20:07

Yeah, I think it's uh what I heard both of you say, and I think it's awesome, is making it mandatory. It's not you know, the you teach everybody the why, why we're pulling this new employee off for two days before they start getting really into the weeds and helping the property. But it's also on the other side, you have an employee that's been there for a long time. How do you make training a day a part of your weekly plan, right? I mean, have you guys seen any teams, you know, or strategies behind making training important for our long-standing employees as well?

SPEAKER_00 20:44

For us, we we kind of they're trying they're kind of um putting it as part of KPIs for you know the regional managers, you know. Um my team, I mean, we have it. You know, I check the training for my team, my team included, we're part of it, you know. I tell my team we've got to be 100% all the time. You know, um, and I think it's just it has to be a company culture and shift. It's like training has to be mandatory for everything because we have new policies and regulations that come out. Like right now, I think everybody, Katie, we're probably in the same thing with the A2L, Jason, right now, you know. And we we put out so much A2L training, um, and we had to make it mandatory for everybody to understand it's like, hey, you this new uh Freon is coming on the uh the market, and it's changed the way you have to do installs. You have to understand we need new equipment, you know, there's different procedures that goes into it uh compared to what you've been doing in the past. So we had to make it mandatory that everybody understands for existing employees that training is mandatory. Uh we want everybody to be safe. It's at the end of the day, I want all my technicians to go home safely. You know, I've I I was I grew up in a time when we kind of did stuff unsafe in the maintenance industry, and I don't want people I don't want The teams to do that anymore. It's to me it we do a job, you know, but at the end of the day, they got families to support, and I want to make sure they return to their families daily. So you have to complete that training.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

Yeah, I think it's it's really easy to say, you know, I think you hit it, you spearheaded it. It has to be a part of your culture. And in order to get it a part of your culture, it has to be written into your operations manual. Um we uh we here, and I have in the past done an education reimbursement program and really emphasized on day one, we believe in the value of education and we want you to succeed here. And I think everybody wants training, or at least that's what they say. Uh, you know, I was never trained, or I want training, or or they crave it, right? And so all they're looking for is that leader or that company who's really truly invested in their development, and that's the way that they see it through the people, but also through your policies and your documents. So um I think that's also really important to maintaining that you know further development piece.

SPEAKER_03 23:06

Yeah, agreed. I think one of the greatest things I saw when I'm in my visits with uh sites was a team that said every Friday after lunch they'd make it mandatory that everybody sits down for an hour and you do some sort of training, whether it's watching a YouTube video or you're on interplay or whatever it is. It's just trying to invest in your team so then that way you don't have a you don't have a groundskeeper or maintenance tech that's uh a maintenance tech for 10 years. I had that before. I felt so bad for that maintenance maintenance tech that was in that position for so long. You know, what could we have done 10 years ago to just start nibbling at training and giving him the opportunity to be able to grow into a supervisor one day and be an effective supervisor as well?

SPEAKER_02 23:48

So yeah, I totally hear you. I hear you on that. It really gives me a heartache when I see people in these positions so long. Same thing, Jason, like groundskeeper. Why has he been in this position for so long when clearly his skill set has outgrown the role? And um, and so I think too, Jason, it's it's really somebody actually takes slowing down and investigating and trying to come to an understanding.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

Yeah, definitely. When we're talking about that transition from tech to supervisor, what sort of red flags come up as far as maybe this person wasn't trained properly, or maybe this person's not even in the right position when they become a supervisor? To you, what what have you seen in the past that kind of flares up? I just want our listeners to kind of be able to put pen to paper and say, you know, uh, you know, we're promoting these people, what's what should what should I be looking for that kind of tells me maybe they were promoted too quickly.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

I always go back to lack of alignment. I mean, if you've got a a new supervisor in place and you're still getting questions or in a roundabout way you're getting feedback, I think it's twofold, right? People like to give feedback, but then they don't like to give feedback, but you will hear about it. And so, I mean, I guess like that's that's sort of the red flag, is maybe like confusion. Um I don't know, Kerwin. I think also like it starts to dip in on the property level, you can see it in other ways metrically through those KPIs. Um, but I think really it's for me it's always feedback, but that just may be because I'm I'm over here in HR and I get to get the phone calls. But Erwin, what do you think?

SPEAKER_00 25:40

No, I agree with you, Katie. Uh, I think that feedback is the missing piece. People are so great at telling everybody, oh, this is what you do so well, but when it's time to give that negative feedback and it's like, hey, this is what you need to work on, we kind of shy away and tend to just don't not have that conversation at all. And I think um when you have a supervisor like that, it's it's great. Nobody's gonna know everything at the end of the day when you're promoting up. Um we gotta realize that. I tell everybody right now, I'm not the smartest guy on my team. Do I want to? No. You know, um, because I I want to learn each and every day, you know, that I'm working. And it's the same thing for a supervisor. But the first thing I say we look for is great attitude. You have that attitude there, and somebody that's willing to do the work and willing to listen and encourages feedback, um, that's the supervisor that you want. Do you want somebody who's like, hey, tell me what I'm doing wrong. I know what I can do well. Tell me what I'm lacking on. Okay, you're not doing your make raise on time. Uh you're not delegating to your team enough. You know, you're taking on a lot of the responsibility. So I think if we can stare to that type of actions, and that's what comes with the community manager being really wholly honest, but that's where I call that uh, you know, kind of the head of the ship, the community manager and that service manager's got to be locked up together. Um, that they can have that open dialogue and open communication with each other. So that's how you get that supervisor up to where you need them to be. That's great.

SPEAKER_02 27:09

Yeah, relationships. You see it through relationships.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

Definitely. We're at we're at work more than we are at home, so it's important that we're getting along while we're there, right? Yeah. Well those are great conversations. I uh I always have a question, you know. So uh Becca told you that I have a question at the end. So my question to you is if I was a new, if I was looking to get into the apartment industry and I was kind of on the fence about apartment maintenance, you know, what would you what would you say to that that person that's on the fence about it and to to make them show to show them that you know this is a great industry and there's a lot of opportunity. You know, Katie, maybe you want to start?

SPEAKER_02 27:49

I think I'll let Kerwin take start with this one, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

Oh, that is a great question, Jason. Uh I would say please do. If you don't know what you're doing, this is a great industry. We're not going anywhere. Um, you can see that AI is not gonna take over apartment industry. Um, we're still gonna need people to fix uh fix items around the apartment community. So I would tell them, look, you're gonna learn some of everything. You're gonna learn leadership skills, you're gonna learn uh personality, you're gonna learn communication, and you're gonna be hands-on and you're gonna learn how to fix a lot of things, you know, drywall, uh, electrical, HVAC, plumbing, um, carpentry, painting, um, landscaping, gardening, you name it, you're gonna learn some of everything. And it's a job that keeps you on your toes each and every day. So you're gonna learn problem solving because a lot of the things we do, we have to learn to problem solve. And you're gonna learn how to connect with people because there's a lot of people on site that you're gonna connect with. Um, and you don't have to call anybody out at your house to fix anything. So you might not like that, but you just saved yourself a ton of money because you're not calling out, you know, your AC goes out, you need to replace a toilet, you need to lay some towel. You will learn how to do that here.

SPEAKER_02 29:09

Hey, maybe I want to go and be a maintenance tech now.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

It's a rewarding, it's a rewarding career. I don't think we've thought of it as a career in past. We've just thought of it as a job, and it's really a rewarding career. Uh look, I started as a porter way back when, and this is where I'm at right now. I wish for everybody to have the opportunity I have to be exactly in my shoes right now. Um, and it's just it's gonna take some hard work and it's gonna take some blood, sweat, and tears, but you're gonna have a really, really rewarding career. And I hate to say it, you get to do some side work too, make some extra coin on the side too. So, you know.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

I don't think I can say it any better than that. I I'll kind of round us out, you know, like I just recently met one of our make readies here at J Street, and he came from a totally different industry, actually, the tech industry. And so when you say, like, you know, these jobs are are we're always gonna be here. We work where people live, people always need a place to live, and we work where you know there's there's not overwhelming technology coming at you, but he has just done so well coming from a completely different industry and absolutely loves it. And he said, you know, I wish that I would have known about this so long ago, um, but that's the advantage of coming on from a different, you know, industry is like you know what it's like on the other side. And um, and so I think that that's a really great tribute to our industry as a whole. You know, Kerwin, there's so many different avenues to to go to. You know, I started off as a leasing consultant, now I'm in HR, it's totally weird, but um you know, I'm I just I want to share that with the world as well. So, and there's a lot of great leaders in our industry, so take advantage of it.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

Yeah, I I always say it, I've said it on multiple calls. I didn't, you know, graduate high school and say I'm gonna get into apartment maintenance. And I, you know, that's where I'm at, and and just like you, Kerwin, it's it's been rewarding to myself and my family as well. So, and I I hope everybody has the same success.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

So and the funny thing about it, we can't uh my friends always ask me what I do, and I've explained it 8,000 times and nobody understands it. They don't care.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Well, we know there's room to grow in the apartment industry, and you can check out our website for jobseekers, room to grow tx.org. A lot of great resources about why this is a great career to get into, no matter what part of the industry you're in. So make sure you check that out and share it with people who you think would find this industry just right for them. So thanks everyone so much. We will be back next month on May 27th with another episode of How to Speak Maintenance. Thanks everyone.